Liverpool Juggling Convention
I'm considering perhaps maybe eventually possibly reviving the Liverpool convention (but this is by no means certain yet). I was hoping some of the more seasoned Edgizens might remember a thing or two about the original run of conventions. All I know so far is what is already on The Edge (i.e. it was typically in late February, and where it was typically held).
Also, if this convention was to be revived, would people be interested in attending? There aren't a great deal of conventions in the north west (Manchester, WJD), but perhaps that is due to lower demand.
I think that two conventions in such a small area of the UK is quite good. Leeds is also not far away. We have far fewer conventions in the South East considering the large number of juggling clubs.
Sorry, I can't help with regards to the Liverpool convention. I'm sure people would go if you have a good venue.
Little Paul - - Genitore #
I've got fond memories of the Liverpool convention (including some very fond memories of cramming 30 people into Barnesys old flat, RC car races round the car park, pizza/chicken/bacon,cheese and mushroom sarnies/sunday dinner etc - but you're obviously not aiming to recreate those!)
I think Liverpool was reasonably unique from the point of view that the show was an impromptu affair (no booked acts, barely any PA system unless Mini had brought his amp can) and held in the basement bar of The Everyman Theater - a room with 7ft ceilings.
With everyone crammed in to the bar, and with beer and the acts being very much part of the audience it had a very special atmosphere.
Luke Burrage cramming kitchen sponges in his mouth, ben beever on his knees flashing 9 balls under that 7ft ceiling, Barnesy giving us a cheeky wave through his diabolo loop - Mini loudly telling everyone to never try to cram their bollocks into a marmite jar...
There's some footage of the 2004 show in here somewhere: http://juggling.tv/4704
So - yes. I remember the Liverpool conventions fondly. What would you like to know?
I was considering a low-budget convention, and if it was popular then perhaps a bigger one in the future. Do you think a Renegade-style show in a pub would still work? There aren't many conventions that have open shows any more. Manchester is the only one that I know of.
I was also interested in the attendance and how it compared to other conventions at the time. This would probably help with guessing how many people to budget for.
And finally, would it be worth trying to "revive" the convention (i.e. try and bring back the "essence" of the original run of Liverpool conventions), or do you think it would be better to just start afresh?
I think it is always better to start fresh, in my experience most revival efforts end in disappointment. Don't feel pressured into doing what you think is expected. If every organiser did this all festivals would be the same & quickly become stale & boring. It also puts unnecessary strain on you as the organiser. I think the pressure to meet people's preconceived ideas of what *has* to happen at a BJC for example is huge & is damaging to the organisation team.
Richard's back to basics manifesto is an excellent starting point & can either be the finishing point or you can add a few bells & whistles of your own.
Some random ramblings:
You can't guess attendance using past figures. The popularity of juggling itself goes up and down, the popularity of the clubs in your local area goes up and down separately, and you never know how much of the past attendance was due to the reputation of the organising team. I reckon you'd get a better read of attendance with a Facebook poll. Make a Facebook event, invite everybody in the world, and then assume half of the people who said Yes will come and all the people who said Maybe will stay at home.
Low-budget and grow slowly is a really great way to de-risk the whole business when you can't guess your attendance very well (and you can't).
As for the evening: if you do go for a renegade-style show, I strongly suggest priming a good number of suspects beforehand. Good renegades are usually much more carefully organised than the audience are aware of.
Without something strong going on in the evening (and renegade doesn't count), you'll get lower numbers; but if you can break even with low numbers, this would be a great way of getting into the swing of things.
There's space for a convention that does something totally different in the evening, if you can find a way to bring people together and keep them entertained without breaking the bank. Pot luck and disco night! I'd come :-)
Alternatively a more formal show can be run on a low budget IF you can use all or nearly all friendly locals and people who are coming anyway. I.e. no payment, no travel expenses, and probably no comped tickets. This can work if a lot of people owe you big favours. You have good odds that half of them will let you down at the last minute anyway, and you can't really blame them.
Finally, the past was great but it's gone now and it is not coming back. Do it your own way.
Don't make any assumptions based on a facebook poll!
Milton Keynes convention most years has about 100 people saying the will come and about 40 people saying maybe on facebook.
Our numbers over the last 4 years are
150, 225, 200, 200 (approx.)
Of those, about half have indicated via facebook that they would be attending. Some have indicated via facebook that they wouldn't be attending!
I'd say that there is a greater than even chance that a one-day convention anywhere in England will attract upwards of 150 people as long as it is planned far enough in advance and advertised properly. The lowest attended convention I have been to in the last 10 years was Nottingham early this September and they had about 100 attendees.
Nigel
Indeed the Facebook part was meant to be distinctly tongue in cheek, no you can't estimate attendance accurately with Facebook.
As for your estimation approach... mathematically speaking, surely it's likely that there were some lower attended conventions and you didn't go to them!
In an average year I will go to at least 6 one day conventions. If they run on a weekend when I am not working and are less than 4 hours travel (one-way) then I am likely to attend. If they are in the South or Midlands then unless it is Leeds convention I have visited them at least once. Nottingham one-day conventions of the ones I have visited have been the ones with the lowest attendance on more than one occasion. I don't think I've been to another one-day convention with less than 120 people (numbers for Taunton convention anyone?)
Nigel
Manchester convention might have had an attendance of less than a hundred, but it doesn't have a massive venue.
Little Paul - - Genitore #
As others have said, if you want to run a convention - don't try to recreate one from the past. You'd do better to do your own thing. Run a fest you would want to go to.
If you're going low budget, then "a show in a pub" will knock a huge chunk off your costs. A lot of pub venues can be had for free (because the pub will make their money on the bar take) and by doing an impromptu/open style show you avoid a load of hassle with booking/paying/transporting acts - but for it to work well, you need to know that there will be people in the audience who can make it good.
So like Emily said, pre-seed the acts, choose your compere carefully. Are there any open-mic comedy gigs in the area? If so, start going to those, make friends with the guy who runs it and pick his brains for ideas about how to run a successful open-mic show.
I'm not sure what Manchester do at the moment as I've not been for years, but they used to do a pub quiz instead of a show with a few acts in the interval.
There's room in the scene for something different, as long as the party doesn't stop when the main venue closes. If people are coming a long way they want something to do in the evening, but that needn't be a show.
In terms of attendance, it depends how/where you advertise it and what time of year you run it. Pick your date carefully and make sure you don't clash (is the jug-con-org mailing list still running? If it is, someone will pop up shortly with details I'm sure!)
As effectively a "new" fest, you need to make people know it's there.
Facebook/Twitter/jugglingedge advertising is free, flyers handed out at exiting events are cheap. Plug the hell out of it and people will come.
Get the basics covered (day venue, evening venue) and if you think you can break even on 50 people aim for that - if you then get 150 people you can always tack on extras on-the-day like free pizza late in the afternoon, or a free drink in the evening venue.
Aim small, get a nice surprise, give some of it back :)
Little Paul - - Genitore #
Oh, and if you're going for an open format show - *don't* call it a renegade.
That name has too much baggage for a one-day fest, and will put some people off "Urgh, I hate renegade, lets not bother" - so call it something else.
Make it sound like something new :)
The Jug Con Org mailing list still exists, but is perhaps only limping along with maybe just 7 posts a year.
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/jugconorg/info
"a show in a pub" will knock a huge chunk off your costs
Another alternative is to have acts perform in the hall at intervals. We did this at the Tunbridge Wells Festival in 2002 & it worked really well. Here's what I posted on jugconorg after the event:Here's what we learnt:
We separated the acts by an hour which I was worried would leave too little juggling time in between but it seemed to be about right, but some workshops were cut a little short.
The only complaint we received was that there wasn't enough seating available. This was made by a spectating member of the public rather than a convention goer so it doesn't really count ;) We did discuss getting seating in, & aside from the hassle of laying out & packing up, it also makes for a more formal setting, the argument that won was, we're all jugglers - we all know how to watch a street show.
The system was praised as it maintained a high level of interest throughout the day, particularly for the non-jugglers who wandered in (of which we had quite a few). It also helped for a very relaxed & informal atmosphere as everyone was really close to & on the same level as the performers. It also helped keep the cost of the festival down as there was no need to hire a special venue or convert somewhere into a theatre. Arguably this way of doing things is less spectacular than a grand show, but I felt the excitement & anticipation while a performer set up was much better. I also think we got more value for money as after each show people had time to talk about or try out what they had just seen, whereas if there was another 1, 2, 3... acts on immediately after a lot of what the spectator saw would be forgotten.
We could have done better at the end of each act as there was a brief untidy spell, although this was literally only a matter of seconds. In the street people resume their shopping or whatever & a crowd naturally disperses, but I think there was a slight reluctance for people to resume juggling where the performer was while the performer was still there. If you want to give the system a go make sure there is someone on hand to help the performer pack up props & so on, people will want to say thankyou & chat to the performer afterwards so they'll probably appreciate a hand. Put the music through the sound system as soon as possible too just to get things going again.
I also know that some of the interest in this was because it is a different way of doing things. If every festival did the same thing I'm sure we'd probably get some more negative feedback.
Although I'm not sure how well this would work nowadays as you have to take care to pick performers who are good under street conditions rather than 'just' stage acts. I think the former are less common these days.
Cedric Lackpot - - Genitore #
Everyone else talks much sense Chris-san, but there's one thing to add :-
Get in touch with the Black-E and see if they might be interested in helping out. They've been involved with circus stuff in the past (I think Liverpool Jugglers met there for a while) and promoted a circus show by CASUS Circus just one week ago. They even took the trouble to send me some flyers on the strength of having found my name on the net somewhere. If you're lucky they maybe able to help with day or evening venues, promotion, or co-promotion along with their own productions.
There is the potential in Liverpool to develop something. Good luck.
I think you should do it.
I promise to sport my most glorious scouse accent for at least as long as I can be bothered.
On a more serious note, you can run a convention on a shoe string so long as you can find a decent/cheap venue. Our show venue was the Student Union who were happy to have us for free. Is there a scouse circ soc that might give you a hand? Also I found that a huge quantity of low quality advertisement was very effective in getting people through the door - though to be honest, giving out hundreds of flyers at BJC may have helped in that respect.
There is a scouse circus soc, and I'm planning on breaking the news about a possible convention on Thursday. I don't know what sort of facilities the uni has for us to use, but I'm sure some of the current students will have a better idea.
Another thing I was going to ask about was gimmicks. York has the chocolate cake competition, Leeds has doughnuts, Oxford has crayfish (kudos on the name of next years convention, by the way). Is it worth bothering with a gimmick?
mike.armstrong - - Genitore #
When we introduced the doughnuts in Leeds (1999 IIRC) there were conventions most weekends through the "season", so we wanted something cheap and silly to distinguish us from everyone else. They seem to have become a tradition despite all of the people who made that decision moving on.
I'm not convinced that you need to stoop to those levels anymore! Though if you've got a good idea and can afford it then what's the harm?
Little Paul - - Genitore #
I'd check my tshirt for the date, but it's in the wash...
Little Paul - - Genitore #
You remember correctly, "basil" was 1999
It would be great to see the Liverpool convention starting again, I have good memories of past Liverpool conventions. The after-convention activity at the Everyman were good fun too. I think the Juggling Club might have used to go to the Everyman after their juggling sessions so knew the management and could reserve half the bar on a Saturday night - but I might be wrong about that. I agree it would be better to start afresh rather than trying to recreate something that most people will be too young to remember.
There have been several conventions without big shows, Manchester quizzes in the pub were good, Bradford took everyone for a curry afterwards. Not having a big show saves a lot of organising, but the more you have to offer the more likely people are to come to the convention especially if it means travelling. There is also scope for doing something totally new and different in the evening if you can think of something with broad appeal.
The last Liverpool convention did have a show with acts including Dave Barnes, Dave Kelly & Guy Heathcote, but its atmosphere was marred by being held in half a sports hall with no stage or lighting and a game of football being held in the other half of the hall.
I would recommend teaming up with a university juggling society as they may be able to find a cheap venue. It is probably not coincidence that quite a few UK conventions are organised by university societies.
You don't need a gimmick, but if you want one or think of an easy to organise one that might attract more people it doesn't hurt. York convention did not get the Chocfest name or start the chocolate cake gimmick till after they had been going several years and Leeds' doughnut gimmick didn't happen till the 3rd or 4th year.
I think the main thing if you decide to hold it is plenty of publicity, Camvention did a great job of publicising their convention this year and had an attendance of ~250 for what was pretty much a brand new convention, likewise the relaunch of Oxford Convention was well publicised. If there aren't many jugglers locally you will have to work harder to persuade people to travel to your convention on the other hand holding a convention might encourage more local people to juggle.
I agree with avoiding the term "renegade" and you will get better results if you can ask people in advance if they would like to perform rather than expecting people to just volunteer to perform on the day (the same goes for people leading workshops).
Liverpool is not that close to Leeds it is about the same distance as London to Peterborough but with a slower train service.
The first Chocfest Chocolate Cake Challenge was at Chocfest 4 (I think Chocfest 3 was the first to carry the Chocfest name?) and was invented as a way to get more chocolate in to Chocfest.
It took 3 years to properly catch on. The first year I think we had about 10 or 12 cakes and the second year we had a grand total of 6 cakes (including one huge cake made by the university canteen staff that fed at least half the convention). We advertised it more for the third year and that's when we started getting 20+ cakes (now up to 35-40 cakes!).
As others have said though, a good convention will have the basics done well - the rest is just icing ;)
Only bother with stuff like that once you have nailed the important bits: Budget, venue under contract, vast amounts of publicity, planning for evening events if you are having some.
If you find yourself having organised that lot comfortably with plenty of time to spare then you can knock yourself out on the scouse alternative to doughnuts.
OR if you have an enthusiastic and creative person hovering about who is unable to help with any of the above, this problem is for them.
Little Paul - - Genitore #
This with knobs on.
Get the basics sorted first, then add the quirky stuff afterwards.
The crayfish was more of an accidental promise that we didn't deliver on in any way than a gimmick. The only thing there was to do with crayfish at last year's ojc was me talking about them in the run up to the event, and albie giving me a carrier bag of them on the sunday afternoon when I left his.
That said, I'll be talking about them with similar vigour this year as I'm sure you've discovered already from the name of the convention.
Richard Loxley - - Genitore #
Sounds good.
When picking a date it's worth noting that Birmingham Ballring tends to be early February and Bath Upchuck tends to be late February. If you can pick a date that's not too close to other events you may get more people coming.
I was initially planning on keeping the date close to the original dates used for the Liverpool conventions, but I don't want to "compete" with Birmingham, Bath or Sheffield. (Un)fortunately, there are a lot of conventions in the UK, and wherever a new convention is placed, it will be close to at least one other.
It is only 10 weeks till February which is not a huge amount of time to publicise and organise a new convention.
For comparison JuggLINCOLNvention started advertising ~13 months in advance, Oxford Convention ~7 months, Camvention ~6 months.
This is not to say it cannot be done, but something to bear in mind and maybe will have to publicise slightly harder.
Not to mention that finding an acceptable venue (i.e. cheap enough) can take time, getting an agreement with the owners can take longer, and most of the country grinds to halt for at least two weeks over the Christmas holidays.
Or you could find a venue tomorrow and sign a contract the next day and then bingo! but more likely not.
Also watch out for exam periods. Your convention budget can stand or fall on ten attendees and exams could put a fork right in it.
I had no intention of running it this coming February. I'll probably have to wait until Ballring and Upchuck (and possibly Sheffield) have confirmed a date for 2015 before considering a late February/early March convention.
Ballring is the 8th Feb 2014 and UpChuck haven't announced their date yet, but this year there was only Chocfest, Ballring, Belfast, UpChuck and Sheffield in the 14 weekends before BJC - so there is space for more conventions.
Having conventions on consecutive weekends can also be detrimental to attendance so is probably best avoided.
I'd say that even two weeks apart isn't so great if you are in the same part of the country. There were a number of people at Cambridge convention who had made it to MKJC in previous years but didn't make it this year. Maybe our show line up didn't excite them enough or Cambridge did the publicity better but it is worth thinking about. Saying which Liverpool is a long distance from Bath so that will have much less of a crossover than Birmingham. (I know that despite all the good things I've heard about it that I have no plans for ever going to Durham convention as the journey is just a bit too much).
We made it to two Liverpool juggling conventions and enjoyed them so please bring it back. First weekend of February half term would be ideal for me at the moment :-)
Nigel
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