Discussioni che coinvolgono EricS

Maria - 9/14/2017 16:52 - Genitore #

Hi Walter! Nice to see you on the Edge. :)

7b_wizard - 9/2/2017 17:13 - Genitore #

Doesn't match: >50yo, going for 9b.

No, serious, ..

Hi emead, matches for me (serious for 7b at about 36yo, now daily practise).

Joerg - 9/5/2017 06:57 - Genitore #

Hi emead,
I am 46 and can qualify 7 balls (pb=20-30 catches). I have (re-)started juggling 4 years ago, learning 4 ball tricks and siteswaps. After about half a year I have learned the 5 ball cascade. I mainly juggle self-made Russian balls. Progress with 7b is very slow compared with all other tricks. Now, I focus more on body throws, box variations, and passing (clubs).

Yves Bolognini - 9/5/2017 20:42 - Genitore #

43, will start working on 7 balls pretty soon. Solid 5, taking juggling class since last week. We all need challenges, right?

emead - 9/6/2017 23:09 - Genitore #

Wow! Good to hear there's more than a few of us. :)

I know one thing that has surprised me is that I never seem to get that "one day" where I best 30 catches and then the next day it's 40 and the next 70, etc. That happened for 5-balls, but 7-balls just seems to be one and a tenth step forward, one step back......

Orinoco - 9/12/2017 18:54 - Genitore #

Hi emead, welcome aboard. I'm (counts on fingers) 38 so not far off age wise. I'm regularly at around 20-30 catches, 7 balls is definitely a skill I'd like to keep into my 40s & beyond.

Kelhoon - 9/21/2017 06:32 - Genitore #

I started at a similar age, it took me a lot of work to get 5 balls up to 100 catches, I let it slip after that though, I'd be lucky to get 20 catches nowadays.

But ... it can be done, keep at it.

Daniel Simu - 12/27/2015 00:01 - Genitore #

Could you specify "best"?

ejwysz - 1/4/2016 17:53 - Genitore #

Lmao. People in this thread getting butthurt about the definition of "best".

-Falco
-Komei Aoki
-Masaki Hirano
-Kouta Ohashi
-Sean McKinney
-Gustaf Rosell
-Tim Kelly
-Chris Bliss

I know I'm forgetting someone, damnit.

Lou Duncan - 12/27/2015 00:15 - Genitore #

I don't know about "best". I think it's pretty hard to find an objective way of defining that. I'd say my favourites are maybe:
1.Kohei Yamashita
2.Falco Scheffler (spelling?)
3.Masaki Hirano

It changes around a bit depending on what I'm aspiring to at the time, but Kohei is too fluid to ever dislike:)

Mike Moore - 12/28/2015 01:06 - Genitore #

Hmm, why Kohei? I can only find a handful of videos of his, and most are pretty old. I enjoyed his routine from three years ago, but I'd need to see more before putting him in a favourites list. Is there more somewhere?

In terms of pattern/trick generation and raw difficulty, Michael Falkov is the highest on my list. For pattern generation/difficulty of box patterns, it's Murakami Tsubasa. It's a shame neither are particularly active anymore.

For naaasty body throws, there's a guy whose name slips my memory right now...he's bald and has super-long dwell time. Paul Lind and Dave Kelly should get mentions, too, as 3b jugglers that I think are too good (but I don't do enough body throws to really enjoy).

noslowerdna - 12/29/2015 05:04 - Genitore #

Lucas Adverse has a similar style with that sort of contrast / balance. Also andReas423ele although he is a club juggler.

Daniel Simu - 12/28/2015 13:44 - Genitore #

Okay, instead of "best" (since I don't know what that means) I'll list my all time favorites:

Michael Menes
Stefan Sing

Daniel Simu - 12/18/2015 20:29 - Genitore #

With less passers, there is a smaller chance of error, and thus you can work on more difficult/complicated stuff! Therefore I voted 4 but actually I mean 2.. ;)


Once you've decided to go with group passing... I totally agree with Richard! Whoever joins, the more the merrier :)


Flexible patterns, where it is easy to include more people:

Circle: passing to your neighbours (3+, gets a bit harder with more people as the angle gets wider)
Circle: passing to the person opposite side (5+, gets harder with every extra person as the distances increase)
W shape. Or with many people a VVVVVVV shape (3+)
A couple more patterns come to mind, but I don't know names and I don't feel like describing them..
Plenty of shapes are thinkable where the passes are simple, and people could move around in between passes. Like a Y, or 2 Y shapes back to back (6 people), inner outer circle/star ( minimum 3 passers in the middle, same amount of passers around, passes follow a star shaped path)...

Since the chance of error and the chance that you have beginner passers increases with more people, I would always recommend stuff that is easy to understand and execute, or directly builds upon material that all passers know (extending a roundabout for example). In any pattern, any passer can be exchanged for 2 people doing walk-arounds, any pass can be exchanged for someone doing takeouts and drop ins.

I suppose you've also looked at the passingwiki?
https://passingwiki.org/wiki/Special:RunQuery/Pattern_Query

Maria - 12/18/2015 23:24 - Genitore #

It doesn't really matter to me what is the "best" number of people to pass with, at my juggling club we are usually 2-5 passers and we choose a pattern according to the number of passers present.

Uhm, so... Good patterns?

For 4 people I like:
Scrambled V
Speed Weave (can also add an extra club, do passes as doubles)
Rotating Y
14 clubs Y
A "shooting star" with 12 clubs, don't know the name but 4-count, doubles, walking holding two clubs
(Yes, I like patterns where I get to move around...)

5 people:
Mr inside Mr outside weave
star (many possibilities to make different variations here)
W-feed (add walking to make it more interesting)

Haven't really been in patterns with more than 5 jugglers very often. Boston Circle?

Marvin - 12/26/2015 08:00 - Genitore #

This poll has now ended. The results are:

1.   4 (2 votes)
2.   5 (1 vote)
3.   6 (0 votes)
4.   7 (0 votes)
5.   8
   (0 votes)

Orinoco - 12/4/2015 19:37 - Genitore #

Saying how much feedback you want up front is a good plan if you know what is going to be useful to you, but will a newbie really know? I think there is a lot of pressure to take feedback even when it is not helpful. I think there is a point where a newbie becomes ready for feedback but it takes a while to get to it. In the face of a battle-scarred veteran passer I think most virgin passers will panic & say, "Ooh, constructive criticism, that's good. Honesty, that's good too. I'll have lots of that please." I've seen poor newbies battered by a catalogue of errors way beyond their current ability to correct. I've never asked anyone I've taught how much feedback they want. Probably arrogance on my part because I think I know best?

I'm definitely closer to option 2. I find that if you take away the pressure to make perfect passes the pupil improves much more rapidly. A lot of the people I teach to pass haven't got a very solid cascade yet. I'm a strong believer that learning to pass as soon as possible is a good thing. I really do it to give them a bit of variety to their practice so they don't get bored of drilling the cascade on their own (which is apparently a problem for some other people), so I don't care what their passes are like, I'm sneakily trying to get them to do more self throws.

The Void - 12/4/2015 14:44 - Genitore #

1.5 Give them enough feedback to work on. But don't overload them with too much to think about.

Mike Moore - 12/4/2015 14:48 - Genitore #

I'm assuming this is assuming there's a big skill asymmetry between me and the other person. If so, I deal with whatever they throw at me until the variability in their throws starts to tighten up. At that point, I think they're ready for feedback.

That said, normally the feedback (for a new passer, anyway) is "okay, good, let's change the count."

Little Paul - 12/4/2015 14:52 - Genitore #

I'm probably somewhere in the middle of those two options. I'll deal with anything that's within arms reach, if it's not in arms reach I'll keep sending good, on-time passes until I can recover the drop. I try to give encouraging feedback during the run ("nice!, that's it! more like that!")

But I'll save more detailed feedback at the end of a run if there's a consistent problem (eg, "those passes got longer as they went on" or "you're consistently sending half a spin too much")

Oh, and because I'm British, I'll spend as much time apologising for not being able to catch everything...

However, if I'm passing with an experienced passer[1] and trying to improve my throws (which given that I pass about once a year these days, leaves quite a lot of room for improvement) then I tend to criticise my own throws and actively seek detailed corrective advice.

_{[1] which basically means Mamph}

emilyw - 12/4/2015 15:09 - Genitore #

3. Pick one thing they would get most benefit from working on. Tell them about that one thing. Then point out every pass where they get that thing RIGHT.

Also teach them to look through the pattern so they can see more easily for themselves what's going wrong.

Richard Loxley - 12/4/2015 18:39 - Genitore #

Right in the middle of the two.

I don't point out mistakes unless at least half their throws have the same mistake, in which case I'll point it out during the next pause.

Maria - 12/5/2015 18:29 - Genitore #

I think I'm closer to option 2. Definitely not commenting on every pass, but after a drop I might say something like "Okay, good, but many of your passes are a bit short. Do you think that you can make them a bit longer?" or "Did you notice that I got one of your passes to the wrong hand?". The second more to see if they have learned to see my cathces than to correct something that happened once...

It depends a bit on how much I think they are able to fix too, if it looks like the pattern is very difficult to them or I know they don't really have a solid cascade yet I'll probably give less feedback, at least as long at it's good enough to not mess up my passes to them.

Not that I have taught many people to pass yet, very few, and only like 3-4 of them had never tried any passing at all before.

Like Orin I think learning to pass soon is a good thing, and of course, since I think passing is the best kind of juggling I want every new juggler to learn and have fun with passing. Sometimes I try to teach someone 5 clubs 1-count before they have even learned to juggle...

Marvin - 12/12/2015 08:00 - Genitore #

This poll has now ended. The results are:

1.   Point out every under-spun/over-spun/long/short/wide/crossing etc. pass (1 vote)
2.   Just deal with it & let them iron their own mistakes out (11 votes)

Daniel Simu - 12/13/2015 03:13 - Genitore #

Not too long after posting this, I ended up passing with a relative beginner (managed in the end 6 passes of 3count).

I do indeed correct throws that are off, but mostly they are too inconsistent to point out specific flaws!

7b_wizard - 9/6/2015 23:38 - Genitore #

Last day for this poll if you wanna vote on trying and working (or not) on everything there is.

Marvin - 9/8/2015 07:00 - Genitore #

This poll has now ended. The results are:

1.   - I am perfectly okay with what I do and what line I'm on and stick to that. [=not at all "complete", few "new"] (3 votes)
2.   - I casually widen my repertoire whenever e.g. I'm done with something prior or e.g. sth. new (& different & unrelated) fascinates me. [=but far from "complete". =No.] (4 votes)
3.   - I eagerly take what i can get, for fun only, and it's no issue avoiding what doesn't seem to suit me. [=open & longing for new & other things, but "complete": no.] (2 votes)
4.   - I actually do work on and want to fairly master at least the basics of any prop and util comes under my hands, all basics patterns, except for it would mean harder work over longer period of time .. and only aside of cultivating my specialities or favourites. [=yes but.] (0 votes)
5.   - I partly work myself even into what I dislike a lot, e.g. because its common skill, or because I think its necessary part of being a juggler / artist, or because I can't be ashamed of not being able to do a basic trick or having that basic skill, or because I want that distinct result (trick or skill). [but no way "every- or anything or complete"] (1 vote)
6.   - I even expect myself to learn (possibly everything) what I even dislike for wanting to be complete as an artist. [=Yes!] (0 votes)
7.   - Yes. (other) (1 vote)
8.   - No. (other) (0 votes)
9.   - neither, nor. / yes and no. / too much overlap in choices. / "Is there tea & cookies?" / "I am not voting on this poll." / other "other" .. (0 votes)

DavidCain - 6/24/2015 21:23 - Genitore #

There was an earlier attempt to establish a Society of Professional Jugglers about twenty years before the IJA was founded, but it never happened. I do think the IJA is responsible for the creation of juggling conventions and festivals.
David Cain

Little Paul - 6/25/2015 06:36 - Genitore #

Well, you see.. I think I would actually thank Len Vintus.

Who is Len Vintus you say? He's the chap who founded the International Brotherhood of Magicians in 1922.

Although other societies of magicians (and other variety artists) existed before the IBM, the IBM was the first "distributed" society, where members were spread out across the globe and only came together once a year for a convention. Other societies (eg the Magic Circle) were based around a club which met regularly in a designated space, more akin to a gentlemans club. They may have had a yearly formal dinner, but nothing like the format adopted by the IBM.

The IBM proved there was a place for distributed societies of like minded performers, who would come together for a yearly convention.

The IJA grew out of the IBM so it was natural that they would adopt the yearly convention model (and newsletter, members lists etc) - I think if you're going to thank anyone for juggling conventions, you should thank the person who founded the society which inspired them.

7b_wizard - 6/25/2015 12:40 - Genitore #

Travelling wasn't as easy as nowadays in these old days .. so such an IBM meeting must have had strong exotic and exclusive flair ..

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lukeburrage - 6/25/2015 09:26 - Genitore #

I realized that those "three types of juggling conventions" is something I wrote about a decade ago, I think for the IJDb compendium, that I copied over to wikipedia to pad out the Juggling page. I wrote large majority of the early wikipedia entry on Juggling, and had no qualms about some of it being "original research". I had no problem with people updating the page and removing or changing what I wrote, and still don't, and at one point I was quite happy with the Juggling page. Now the Juggling page is a complete mess.

I remember at one point someone added this image to the top of the page:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/ab/Jugglers_Circus_Amok_by_David_Shankbone.jpg/220px-Jugglers_Circus_Amok_by_David_Shankbone.jpg

And there was some discussion back and forth if it was the most appropriate image of juggling. Turns out that the entire system of wikipedia editing and stuff meant that, yeah, that stuck, while images I'd chosen of more modern juggling were simply deleted over and over.

Now the images are "Shit photo of stiff five ball juggling in a park" then "shit cellphone video of fire juggling in a street show" then "another shit photo, this time of more fire juggling" then "tennis racquets" then the above image of "lots of clowns, is one of them juggling?" then "shit image of stilt walker also juggling" then "another shit photo... yes more fire juggling" then two really shit animations taken from very old siteswap animators.

Sigh.

Mïark - 6/25/2015 14:17 - Genitore #

There is a link to Juggling Edge events listing in the second section "Juggling Activities" (it is not the obvious place for a link or very noticeable).

The German version of that wikipedia page does have link to INBAZ (and Juggling Edge, Jongle.net, EJA.net)

Orinoco - 6/25/2015 11:42 - Genitore #

I wouldn't expect the European Juggling Association to contribute to projects outside of Europe in the same way that I don't expect the International Juggling Association to contribute to projects outside of planet Earth ;)

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Scott Seltzer - 6/28/2015 18:46 - Genitore #

I tried a bunch of things that I thought were great ideas, but they got rejected. In the end, I found something that was good for the organization and quite good for "rendering assistance to jugglers." It may not be easy, but it's not impossible.

Orinoco - 6/28/2015 19:56 - Genitore #

For the record I'm not nitpicking the IJA for being US centric (I'm nit picking for not being clear about where all the money is going), in fact I have argued & still believe that the IJA should be more US centric.

I think a lot of jugglers who could help the IJA be more international are too busy organising conventions, running local clubs, running prop specific organisations, producing content etc. in their own locality on their own. Why should they help the IJA when they are already providing assistance to jugglers without help from an umbrella organisation?

lukeburrage - 6/29/2015 08:55 - Genitore #

I have no problems with all of the things the IJA does do, and I really don't want to dump on anyone specifically. The festival I went to was fun enough, and I can see why jugglers without better options locally are happy to return each year. I really appreciate the eJuggle blog and the video projects, and would happily pay 30 dollars a year to support that initiative.

My problem is that I feel really bad giving money to the IJA knowing its leadership is continuously fighting against incompetence and bullshit. Again, look at the website. I mean the four different websites. I mean the four different websites, and the email list that sends out PDF text files. Seriously. How can any organization that has such a public face be taken seriously? How can there be such high levels of uselessness and complete lack of leadership?

And no, the answer is not to volunteer myself. The answer is for the IJA leadership to be not broken.

Mike Moore - 6/29/2015 00:20 - Genitore #

"Why should they help the IJA when they are already providing assistance to jugglers without help from an umbrella organisation?"

Another approach, though david's response also makes sense to me.

I've made (and ran, for a while) a couple clubs and recently ran my first fest (yay!). I try to render assistance, as well as spread the juggling love in a localish setting (Ontario).

The IJA is very useful for our club. It ensures that there will be at least one large, well-rounded[1] juggling festival that many of our members can attend[2] each year. Sometimes we'll sit around, watching the newest Peden or Pezzo video, compliments of the IJA. They've also been known to make donations to raffles in the forms of memberships and DVDs, both of which go over well.

The IJA is very useful for me. They run competitions I get excited about (Video Tutorial Contest, some of the World Record Challenges) and I also love the festivals. The people I've met there have helped me immensely.

So for me, I try to help the IJA because I feel I've benefitted from it far more than the money I've spent on it. If I have the time and ability, why wouldn't I volunteer for an organization that's helped me so much?

[1] - Turbo is a solid fest, but very circus/club-oriented
[2] - RIT unfortunately hits during many students' exam times

Mïark - 6/25/2015 15:34 - Genitore #

Undoubtedly the IJA festival should be credited as the longest running juggling convention as we know it still around today and the inspiration for other juggling conventions such as the EJC, and if it is the first it should have recognition for that too.

If you were to measure success in popularity it would be very likely that more people have attended the EJC over the past 37 years than attended the IJA festivals over 67 years (it is hard to find attendance figures for past IJA festivals, but an article by one of the attendees of the first EJC suggests the IJA festival attendance before the 1970s was down to 25-30 people).

Despite searching on-line I have still not found any evidence that there was any seed money from IJA for the first EJC, admittedly it was advertised in the IJA bulletin and the IJA allowed the 1st EJC organisers to contact IJA members in Europe using the IJA list/roster and some of the 11 attendees were IJA members. It was also referred to as an IJA mini-convention [ ]. So I am happy for the IJA to say their festival inspired it and they helped it (as their motto "to render assistance to other juggers" suggests they should), but I am not sure the IJA can take all the credit for getting the EJC going.

The first BJC could be said to be inspired by EJC as the organisers of the first BJC were at the EJC in Saintes and decided to organise a British Juggling Convention [ ]- but the EJC has never (to my knowledge) taken credit for the creation of the BJC.

The EJA does donate money to fund juggling initiatives within Europe, but the EJA has never claimed to be International in its name.

Some of those UK one-day juggling conventions have a higher attendance than WJF conventions and more than half the attendance of IJA festivals.

david - 6/27/2015 02:08 - Genitore #

"but the EJA has never claimed to be International in its name."

Isn't the 'E' sort of international (still) : )

Mïark - 6/27/2015 15:14 - Genitore #

oops broke post!

I don't know if anyone or group has ever bid to hold the IJA festival outside North America - perhaps the problem is not the IJA but the lack of potential non-US festival organisers. Looking at IJA festival requirements it might fail the "affordability" requirement since many IJA members would have to travel from USA to Europe.
The documents says all venues need to be in 5 minute walking distance of each other (this does not including lodging) so not necessarily all in one venue, but very close venues.

I am always surprised to see the IJA has a European Representative (does anyone know what "the European Juggling Magazine" they refer to is? Are they referring to Kaskade by its subtitle?) but I am not an IJA member so probably wouldn't need to be informed they have a European representative. I would have thought a South American Rep would be a more likely job considering all the South American IJA initiatives they have had over the past few years.
Curiously the non-american IJA representatives appear to be the only IJA officer position where the holder is required to be an IJA member.

Scott Seltzer - 6/27/2015 17:50 - Genitore #

The IJA is more than just a festival. Here are a few of their more international programs:
* eJuggle (http://ezine.juggle.org/) - probably their best project ever. ;-)
* IRC (IJA Regional Competitions) - so far a few have been in South/Central America but they're hoping to expand further.
* Video Tutorial Contest
* World Juggling Day
* Props2U - props donated around the world.

Mïark - 6/25/2015 15:40 - Genitore #

oh, another interesting discussion might be; are juggling conventions responsible for the popularisation of juggling or is the popularisation of juggling responsible for juggling conventions?

JackJuggles - 6/25/2015 11:42 - Genitore #

It may not be the first juggling festival, but I think it's the first "successful" one. By successful I mean it is still around today, and lots of people know about it and/or attend.